I liked the interview, but he is a mealy mouthed weasel. And his bullshit about antisemitism in his party was offensive. Hell, he didn't even know what the "blood libel" was. All those Pod Save guys can go fuck themselves.
Very good. Lovett reminds me of many of the people close to me… smart enough, but who is ultimately a team player and an apologist for bad team behavior. I used to be one of these people. I like him. He’s wrong about so much. Keep having him on. I respect his mistaken-ness. I sharpen my own arguments because his wrong conclusions aren’t cartoonish.
I found it interesting that he whiffed on Zionism on the first round but then regained some composure and articulated himself better on the second round.
Still, this notion that one’s support for the Herzl-era Zionist philosophy as being correct is somehow dependent on current administrative performance is where the democrats lose me; it would be the equivalent of saying that because DJT is a nitwit and says and does damaging things means that the entire American experiment is null and void.
Michael you are making me consider paying for this subscription, you bastard.
Lovett's pile on of Israel's "monstrous" behavior lacked all context; Moynihan brought it up at the end (i.e. it's not that they're imagining being surrounded by enemies who want to annihilate them, and pretty much since 1947), but that point felt a little late. Agree that MM is one of the best interviewers around.
”it would be the equivalent of saying that because DJT is a nitwit and says and does damaging things means that the entire American experiment is null and void”
This is not such an uncommon idea on the left! The idea that America was built on a “rotten foundation” (see, e.g., the 1619 project) – and that DJT is proof of the ongoing and underlying depravity of the country – is mainstream in the young, liberal, academic circles I travel in.
(For the record, I strongly disagree with my peers on this issue. But any pro-America sentiment is considered profoundly uncool, morally suspect, and a little dumb.)
I recognize falling into this same trap years ago. And I think I must've read the odd article after 9/11 explaining "Why They Hate Us", and me feeling resigned to agree and go along with it. Then you read more and you read more and you realize how untrue all of that is. That it is a worldview in place to prop up a larger project of hoping to replace the West with something more just, equitable and always, always utopian. Fuck that noise.
I do see lots of things repeating. The difference was that we also still were watching the same TV shows and there was a bit more social solidarity at the time. But it wasn't until later that I came to understand that this progressive idea of renouncing the hand that feeds you was kind of everywhere. You don't see it when it's everyone around you. This sort of way of looking at the world (and philosophizing on a full stomach) is only made possible by our way of life. Don't worry, people were wrong en masse back then, too.
Moynihan, not to blow smoke, but to my eye you’re the best interviewer in the industry. I know you don’t want to step on the fifth column’s toes by having this show be too political. But, either through this channel or that one, you should be striving to be the political interviewer.
Our political landscape is hobbled by a lack of high quality interviews. You coild fill that role. Cheers.
Katie Porter’s campaign never recovered from the interview where she berated the female interviewer, and if anything that would have played worse for a male politician. The stuff where she yelled at the staff was just the final nail.
Yeah, claiming that women are expected to be nicer than men doesn't wash anymore. That may have been true in the 1980s, but things have changed. She's baseline ragey. It's not fun.
After staring at my phone with wide eyed bewilderment over the verdict that Katie Porter didn't win just because she was a mean lady boss, I was greatly relieved you pointed out her behavior was on video and that is what changed the game. Also, witnessing the same calculations being made in real time on the Zionist question, that he just described with the abolish the police discussions of 2020 was pretty interesting. Jon is still very much living Woke 1.0.
I'm still salty about the 5150 diss in the Gene Simmons interview, but absolutely love the show. Keep up the great work!
Yeah, me too! But these days, I'm finding it much more interesting to talk to a smart person with whom I disagree (and not getting in shouting matches with those people; i'll leave that to Piers and...everyone else on the internet). So down with the echo chambers!
I agree with the comment further up from Derek Hudson that you’re an excellent political interviewer and should do more of it. I often hear you talk about ‘soft interviewers’ on the Fifth and the ways in which they could have pushed back a little harder. As Derek said, you could be filling that void. And there really does seem to be a void. People are craving good solid political interviews and you ask the questions that we are all yelling at the screen. I know The Moynihan Report is meant to be more about culture than politics, but perhaps 50/50? 60/40? 70/30?
At the end of the day I love your interviews no matter who the interviewee is, even people I had no idea I would find interesting. So, keep up the amazing work and do what you want, I don’t care (seriously, though…do more political interviews).
I like that. Especially when they can't handle the contradictions in their own views (like Lovett) and start to babble. Maybe you could bring Shadi Hamid back on.
Amazing Convo! Good discussion on Zionism and genocide. And I like how Michael tried to pull him away from feelings towards what real definitions are. You can tell Jon is weighted down by what is being said in his political circles, so does not want to really state his beliefs. A lot of those terms I find fuzzy. Does being a Zionist simply mean believing Israel should exist as a Jewish state? Israel does exist, so do you need to continue to believe it should exist - would Zionism be over in that case? Does being anti-Zionist mean believing Israel should not exist at all or that it should not exist beyond its current boarders? Or does Zionism, for some people, imply a desire for Israel to expand into all the territories associated with biblical Israel (From the River to the Sea, but from a jewish/ Israeli perspective)? Similar with "Free Palestine". Are "free Palestine" people advocating for Palestinian freedom and statehood within the current borders and political realities, or are they suggesting that Israel should no longer exist? Genocide is really the crazy one - and the comparison during the interview to the former Yugoslavia where people were shot in mass and put in ditches - even if you don't like what has happened/ is happening in Gaza, it is not that. I find these slogans unhelpfully vague. They allow people to rally around words that may represent something noble—or something terrible—and to align with others who repeat the same slogans while meaning something entirely different.
It’s a great interview and you give him all the rope he needs. Please, though, for my sanity make political interviews just an occasional thing. I need good music and culture shows, too. I’m waiting for you to talk to Henry Rollins or Jello Biafra. Use your Boston connection and get Ken Casey to make a fool of himself.
1. Is there something he can recommend that’ll help me forget Gloria Wise?
2. I think you could draw parallels with what “the right” is seeing with the likes of MK and TC. Massie, too. It’s disgusting on “both sides.” But I’m unwilling to forget “Massive Resistance;” one of my college professors graduated from a Catholic high school after the Party Of Progress had closed the public schools instead of integrating. In 1965. Or MLK’s birthday being passed in the 80s, and rebranded “Lee-Jackson-King Day.” Again, is there something I can take? I’m finished working, so no worries about failing a whiz quiz.
3. Artful integration on the “liberal” rebrand.
4. The Katie Porter dodge was #Brace. (Or, you know, you could just not berate people who work for you. There’s many bosses who manage to pull that off…)
5. YOU actually nailed it with the discussion of paths.
6. Really fumbled the abolish the police party.
7. The Antisemitism/Antizionism part was really a great example of willful ignorance; you don’t have to do a ton of like, such as, reading maps to understand what “from the river to the sea”’ means for the State of Israel.
8. “Denounce It because it’s wrong…” Why am I so fucking skeptical he’d say the same thing about what the IRGC does?
9. The genocide language is something used for political purposes. Chomsky would tell you that Bosnia wasn’t and Gaza is. Being on the side against Captain Creationist (Generative) Grammar has always felt comfortable for me.
10. Again…..Israel is a monster, but I’m gonna stay quiet about Iran.
11. Glad he got back to the river to sea part. Coulda said it a lot earlier, guy.
I know you've interviewed him before, but Karl Ove Knausgaard would be great. But I get the sense that he's minimalist about interviews since he escaped me too stuff and his books are so searingly honest about blackouts. My husband thinks if you out yourself in auto fiction you're sort of immunized against cancellation.
Wow, you found the person who likes katie porter (and yes I went back and made her name lowercase) and you decided to subject him to us? Thanks? I dunno I was subjected to that thumb of a person Yamk Yuegar (I dunno that dipshits spelling, not wasting time looking up) and thought He would be the worst person I was subjected to in Sept... Thanks for breaking that record... Was it me or did he mention the 107 days like it was a real thing? Christ this is part of a popular podcast? I thought the insufferable smartless guys where intolerable to listen to.. Yikes. This is the dope Maher walked out on yeah? Things I would learn from the MM Report today if I just walked out of a prison after 50 years of solitary, katie porter is smart and talented, harris is a quality human being who is full of great ideas..... Wow and "Woke One" is mentioned..... Christ....
I liked the interview, but he is a mealy mouthed weasel. And his bullshit about antisemitism in his party was offensive. Hell, he didn't even know what the "blood libel" was. All those Pod Save guys can go fuck themselves.
Stole the words right out of my mouth. I can’t deal with him.
What a disappointment, he just wanted Israel to lie down and die, typical beta lefty. Plus even repeated lies about 10000 dead civilians
Mealy mouthed weasel is perfectly apt. And who the hell asks a speechwriter their opinion about anything?
He certainly isn't hesitant to offer those opinions, even when he is babbling away and sounding like a bowl of mush
Very good. Lovett reminds me of many of the people close to me… smart enough, but who is ultimately a team player and an apologist for bad team behavior. I used to be one of these people. I like him. He’s wrong about so much. Keep having him on. I respect his mistaken-ness. I sharpen my own arguments because his wrong conclusions aren’t cartoonish.
I found it interesting that he whiffed on Zionism on the first round but then regained some composure and articulated himself better on the second round.
Still, this notion that one’s support for the Herzl-era Zionist philosophy as being correct is somehow dependent on current administrative performance is where the democrats lose me; it would be the equivalent of saying that because DJT is a nitwit and says and does damaging things means that the entire American experiment is null and void.
Michael you are making me consider paying for this subscription, you bastard.
Lovett's pile on of Israel's "monstrous" behavior lacked all context; Moynihan brought it up at the end (i.e. it's not that they're imagining being surrounded by enemies who want to annihilate them, and pretty much since 1947), but that point felt a little late. Agree that MM is one of the best interviewers around.
Yes, very much so
”it would be the equivalent of saying that because DJT is a nitwit and says and does damaging things means that the entire American experiment is null and void”
This is not such an uncommon idea on the left! The idea that America was built on a “rotten foundation” (see, e.g., the 1619 project) – and that DJT is proof of the ongoing and underlying depravity of the country – is mainstream in the young, liberal, academic circles I travel in.
(For the record, I strongly disagree with my peers on this issue. But any pro-America sentiment is considered profoundly uncool, morally suspect, and a little dumb.)
I recognize falling into this same trap years ago. And I think I must've read the odd article after 9/11 explaining "Why They Hate Us", and me feeling resigned to agree and go along with it. Then you read more and you read more and you realize how untrue all of that is. That it is a worldview in place to prop up a larger project of hoping to replace the West with something more just, equitable and always, always utopian. Fuck that noise.
I do see lots of things repeating. The difference was that we also still were watching the same TV shows and there was a bit more social solidarity at the time. But it wasn't until later that I came to understand that this progressive idea of renouncing the hand that feeds you was kind of everywhere. You don't see it when it's everyone around you. This sort of way of looking at the world (and philosophizing on a full stomach) is only made possible by our way of life. Don't worry, people were wrong en masse back then, too.
Moynihan, not to blow smoke, but to my eye you’re the best interviewer in the industry. I know you don’t want to step on the fifth column’s toes by having this show be too political. But, either through this channel or that one, you should be striving to be the political interviewer.
Our political landscape is hobbled by a lack of high quality interviews. You coild fill that role. Cheers.
You have a great way of disagreeing with someone and pushing them without making the listener cringe.
Katie Porter’s campaign never recovered from the interview where she berated the female interviewer, and if anything that would have played worse for a male politician. The stuff where she yelled at the staff was just the final nail.
Yeah, claiming that women are expected to be nicer than men doesn't wash anymore. That may have been true in the 1980s, but things have changed. She's baseline ragey. It's not fun.
After staring at my phone with wide eyed bewilderment over the verdict that Katie Porter didn't win just because she was a mean lady boss, I was greatly relieved you pointed out her behavior was on video and that is what changed the game. Also, witnessing the same calculations being made in real time on the Zionist question, that he just described with the abolish the police discussions of 2020 was pretty interesting. Jon is still very much living Woke 1.0.
I'm still salty about the 5150 diss in the Gene Simmons interview, but absolutely love the show. Keep up the great work!
Ok. I disagree with just about everything that Lovett says but this was a great interview. I am
now a paying subscriber. Michael, I beg you, get the full self driving.
Yeah, me too! But these days, I'm finding it much more interesting to talk to a smart person with whom I disagree (and not getting in shouting matches with those people; i'll leave that to Piers and...everyone else on the internet). So down with the echo chambers!
I agree with the comment further up from Derek Hudson that you’re an excellent political interviewer and should do more of it. I often hear you talk about ‘soft interviewers’ on the Fifth and the ways in which they could have pushed back a little harder. As Derek said, you could be filling that void. And there really does seem to be a void. People are craving good solid political interviews and you ask the questions that we are all yelling at the screen. I know The Moynihan Report is meant to be more about culture than politics, but perhaps 50/50? 60/40? 70/30?
At the end of the day I love your interviews no matter who the interviewee is, even people I had no idea I would find interesting. So, keep up the amazing work and do what you want, I don’t care (seriously, though…do more political interviews).
Absolutely. Thank you. You are doing great work. I’m just a rando , normie but I think it’s important to say it.
I like that. Especially when they can't handle the contradictions in their own views (like Lovett) and start to babble. Maybe you could bring Shadi Hamid back on.
He was not as good as Phil Hartman, but it could also be the writing on later seasons of news radio really dropped off.
I apologize, but I felt it needed to be done and gotten out of the way.
Amazing Convo! Good discussion on Zionism and genocide. And I like how Michael tried to pull him away from feelings towards what real definitions are. You can tell Jon is weighted down by what is being said in his political circles, so does not want to really state his beliefs. A lot of those terms I find fuzzy. Does being a Zionist simply mean believing Israel should exist as a Jewish state? Israel does exist, so do you need to continue to believe it should exist - would Zionism be over in that case? Does being anti-Zionist mean believing Israel should not exist at all or that it should not exist beyond its current boarders? Or does Zionism, for some people, imply a desire for Israel to expand into all the territories associated with biblical Israel (From the River to the Sea, but from a jewish/ Israeli perspective)? Similar with "Free Palestine". Are "free Palestine" people advocating for Palestinian freedom and statehood within the current borders and political realities, or are they suggesting that Israel should no longer exist? Genocide is really the crazy one - and the comparison during the interview to the former Yugoslavia where people were shot in mass and put in ditches - even if you don't like what has happened/ is happening in Gaza, it is not that. I find these slogans unhelpfully vague. They allow people to rally around words that may represent something noble—or something terrible—and to align with others who repeat the same slogans while meaning something entirely different.
It’s a great interview and you give him all the rope he needs. Please, though, for my sanity make political interviews just an occasional thing. I need good music and culture shows, too. I’m waiting for you to talk to Henry Rollins or Jello Biafra. Use your Boston connection and get Ken Casey to make a fool of himself.
Next episode isn't political at all. And Rollins is a good idea. Jello...I am less interested in
I like watching you interview people who take themselves way too seriously.
My notes…
1. Is there something he can recommend that’ll help me forget Gloria Wise?
2. I think you could draw parallels with what “the right” is seeing with the likes of MK and TC. Massie, too. It’s disgusting on “both sides.” But I’m unwilling to forget “Massive Resistance;” one of my college professors graduated from a Catholic high school after the Party Of Progress had closed the public schools instead of integrating. In 1965. Or MLK’s birthday being passed in the 80s, and rebranded “Lee-Jackson-King Day.” Again, is there something I can take? I’m finished working, so no worries about failing a whiz quiz.
3. Artful integration on the “liberal” rebrand.
4. The Katie Porter dodge was #Brace. (Or, you know, you could just not berate people who work for you. There’s many bosses who manage to pull that off…)
5. YOU actually nailed it with the discussion of paths.
6. Really fumbled the abolish the police party.
7. The Antisemitism/Antizionism part was really a great example of willful ignorance; you don’t have to do a ton of like, such as, reading maps to understand what “from the river to the sea”’ means for the State of Israel.
8. “Denounce It because it’s wrong…” Why am I so fucking skeptical he’d say the same thing about what the IRGC does?
9. The genocide language is something used for political purposes. Chomsky would tell you that Bosnia wasn’t and Gaza is. Being on the side against Captain Creationist (Generative) Grammar has always felt comfortable for me.
10. Again…..Israel is a monster, but I’m gonna stay quiet about Iran.
11. Glad he got back to the river to sea part. Coulda said it a lot earlier, guy.
Totally agree with you on Katie Porter Michael. Saw her a couple of times on Maher’s show and found her to be an “asshole”.
I know you've interviewed him before, but Karl Ove Knausgaard would be great. But I get the sense that he's minimalist about interviews since he escaped me too stuff and his books are so searingly honest about blackouts. My husband thinks if you out yourself in auto fiction you're sort of immunized against cancellation.
The first non-old 😉! I LOVED Shatner, Simmons, and the lady director. I think you chime well with our elders but this one was good too!
What a dope
Wow, you found the person who likes katie porter (and yes I went back and made her name lowercase) and you decided to subject him to us? Thanks? I dunno I was subjected to that thumb of a person Yamk Yuegar (I dunno that dipshits spelling, not wasting time looking up) and thought He would be the worst person I was subjected to in Sept... Thanks for breaking that record... Was it me or did he mention the 107 days like it was a real thing? Christ this is part of a popular podcast? I thought the insufferable smartless guys where intolerable to listen to.. Yikes. This is the dope Maher walked out on yeah? Things I would learn from the MM Report today if I just walked out of a prison after 50 years of solitary, katie porter is smart and talented, harris is a quality human being who is full of great ideas..... Wow and "Woke One" is mentioned..... Christ....